No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group  

Go Back   No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group > Discussion > Issues of Marriage

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old April 26th, 2012, 09:57 AM
fishhead fishhead is offline
Integration Crusader
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,495
fishhead has five gold starsfishhead has five gold stars
I was on a first name basis with everyone in that boy's school and I used every resource they had - special education, testing procedures, counselling, they issued ME a set of teacher's text books, you name it.

Kodiak said it better than me, but try to keep them seperated. When the crazy starts shut it down. Put your hand on junior's shoulder and guide him out of the room and go for a walk. Do not fear punishment.

The behavior problems certainly helped guide my decision. If he was my biological son I probably would have bore it out (hs father was killed when he was 2). Tough spot.
__________________
There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot.

There are good days and there are bad days, and this is one of them.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old April 26th, 2012, 10:15 AM
chevy1947's Avatar
chevy1947 chevy1947 is offline
Oracle of Masculinity
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 21,067
chevy1947 has five gold starschevy1947 has five gold starschevy1947 has five gold starschevy1947 has five gold stars
I am lucky in the fact that my wife and I strive to have a unified approach
to child raising.

It was not always this way and in the past my wife would make little side deals with the kids. A total diaster and caused more than a few arguements between my wife and I.

Our son is Bi-Polar and I should have been more active, looking back I think my wife made more than a few errors but I let her do it, and its my fault and I also have no clue if my approach would have worked.

It is really bad when one partent goes ballistic along with the child and only feeds the problem.

But again I am lucky as my wife has been pretty good in dealing with the kids.
__________________
Don't take the bait.

Find your self respect, if you do not respect yourself
why would anybody else respect you?

unlike fine wine unresolved problems do not get better with age

A wife or girlfriend like a husband or boyfriend can
be changed or replaced your children are yours for
life don't forget them in your recovery
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old April 26th, 2012, 12:16 PM
Mighty's Avatar
Mighty Mighty is offline
O.S.G. Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 897
Mighty has five gold stars
The trigger thing is for all of us, just in different manifestations and different things that set us off. I have no idea how to get this across, but that year of her friend watching our kids is Ďpoint zeroí for all the issues and dysfunction in our lives. Its the butterfly effect where things just dominoed off on different vectors; Chaos theory in action. Thoughts, impressions, and perspectives of each other and life in general changed and morphed. Actions after that year were based on these new impressions; both sane and not. The wife, all our counselors, etc. all concur. That is where things changed and derailed. It canít be Ďundoneí. It is part of who we are. We at best can learn from it and all those past mistakes and perspectives....

I do work with my son doing a lot of what you all have suggested. I also have deep conversations with my wife about how we can help him. The school does just call me, and weíve set up Ďwhat to doí when he derails.

This thread though isnít really about how to deal with them. Itís about how to deal with myself.

When these outburst happen from my son, it torques me but I can deal with it. The worst of it is that he so very much reminds me of my wife of old. The emotions are more like I want to help him so he doesnít make the same mistakes in life. I do not want him to become his mother.

When I see my wife having this outburst...... RAGE. It floods over me. This is her, as she was when she was fucking other men to Ďget me backí for some minor petty little thing she built up in her head into this massive marriage ending problem. Itís her compelled to do something to deal with all this emotional crap she is feeling and I ďdeserved to be punishedĒ attitude. Then, in hindsight, she feels guilt, knows Iím not so bad, etc... Then repeats it over and over forgetting how she felt and the consequences of the time before... Itís insane; and my son isnít different on this. After he pulls this shit, then he understands, can see how wrong he was, and own it. Then pulls the same shit again like he never learned a damn thing. Argh!!!

So, because of these trigger thoughts, I find myself by default siding with whatever it is she is wanting to hurt. I find myself Ďblindedí by my own emotions to just naturally slip right into opposing her (or my son)... Whether or not the school stepped over the line almost becomes secondary. Itís how she and/or him are approaching this issue where my emotions and thoughts become deadly focused on. Itís reopening terrible festering wounds of my past because of how it worked out.

Can you see how this is all focused on my wife and my impressions of who she was back then? Itís magnified, unrealistic, and I truly want to somehow stop letting this past influence me on such a magnified plain. Yet, its there... its been part of my life for nearly twenty years with her. Only in the last three have I really started putting together how this really affected me. Iím learning new ways of coping, new ways of Ďlivingí... but I can only work on myself. This is my son and wife whom I canít control. And this trauma is so deep in me and such an emotional thing, that reminders just blind me to reason. It is hard to keep my shit under control knowing how this always works out for them. Yet I know I canít fix them... I know I canít avoid these triggers.

I know Iíll keep Ďrelivingí those fucked up years unless: A) They get their shit together. B) I figure out how to close that chapter of my life. Or C), I run like mad so Iím distanced so far that Iím out of the blast radius and impartial to how they fuck their own lives up.

Iím looking for option B. Thatís what I want and what I believe I can work on. Itís my next step.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old April 26th, 2012, 02:39 PM
Tower of Power's Avatar
Tower of Power Tower of Power is offline
Oracle of Masculinity
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,254
Tower of Power has five gold starsTower of Power has five gold starsTower of Power has five gold stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty View Post
...
This thread though isnít really about how to deal with them. Itís about how to deal with myself.

When these outburst happen from my son, ...

When I see my wife having this outburst......

I know Iíll keep Ďrelivingí those fucked up years unless: A) They get their shit together. B) I figure out how to close that chapter of my life. Or C), I run like mad so Iím distanced so far that Iím out of the blast radius and impartial to how they fuck their own lives up.

Iím looking for option B. Thatís what I want and what I believe I can work on. Itís my next step.
You want to detach the emotional hose? You will probably need to limit your involvement, or live a 'deadened' life. Get professional counseling and do all that stuff that we always say: hobbies you love, guy friends, get away from your family situation for a few days from time to time....
__________________
ďLife is either a daring adventure or nothing. To keep our faces toward change and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable.Ē H Keller

Who are you?
What do you want?
What do you need to fulfill your purpose and live a good life?
What are you DOING about it?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old April 26th, 2012, 04:34 PM
checked checked is offline
Oracle of Masculinity
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,239
checked has five gold starschecked has five gold stars
I would say that you need to focus on something else.

A few years ago I started a garden. I spent 2-3 hours a day pruning, tilling, weeding and watering. It got to be too much and I harvested very little because I started not caring for it.

This year I have things a lot more automated. Pine needle mulch to keep out weeds ---and keep water from evaporating so fast. An underground homebuilt irrigation system that requires I just turn on 2 valves and everything gets watered over the course of a few hours. I spend about 10 hrs a week --total --and I stand to harvest a bunch more than I did when I was micromanaging.


Point is -- you need to automate things. Have in place set punishments for your sons behavior. No need to think -- THIS is the punishment for that.

Also you need to get out. Find a hobby that you enjoy that requires you to get out of the house. Maybe alone--maybe with others---but not the wife or son.

Also --the conversation with the wife.....reiterate the same things. No changes--make it automated so you dont have to devote so much thinking to doing.

This will focus your mind somewhere else and your emotions should follow.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old April 26th, 2012, 04:40 PM
chevy1947's Avatar
chevy1947 chevy1947 is offline
Oracle of Masculinity
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Southern California
Posts: 21,067
chevy1947 has five gold starschevy1947 has five gold starschevy1947 has five gold starschevy1947 has five gold stars
checked

If I get what you are saying is it something like:

when there is a problem don't make it necessary or feel necessary to explain why and your position over and over.

So when Junior does X then the consequence is Y

when you debate things like this, especially with teenagers its like you are trying to justify your position each and every time.

Not necessary and really in a way, when kids are in your home and underage then they need to understand that the chevy household is
not a democracy, we are not voting or debating on what time you are to be home from the dance or if you can borrow the car.
__________________
Don't take the bait.

Find your self respect, if you do not respect yourself
why would anybody else respect you?

unlike fine wine unresolved problems do not get better with age

A wife or girlfriend like a husband or boyfriend can
be changed or replaced your children are yours for
life don't forget them in your recovery
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old April 26th, 2012, 04:50 PM
Phrack's Avatar
Phrack Phrack is offline
Oracle of Masculinity
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,642
Phrack has five gold starsPhrack has five gold starsPhrack has five gold starsPhrack has five gold starsPhrack has five gold stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty View Post
I know Iíll keep Ďrelivingí those fucked up years unless: A) They get their shit together. B) I figure out how to close that chapter of my life. Or C), I run like mad so Iím distanced so far that Iím out of the blast radius and impartial to how they fuck their own lives up.

Iím looking for option B. Thatís what I want and what I believe I can work on. Itís my next step.
I said in my initial post that you have to take option B. Start facing the issue without the baggage.

Option A is completely unrealistic because it involves other people and even if that happens something else may trigger you.

Option C is a reasonable option if you don't mind shirking your responsibility. It is your son. I'm much less concerned with your wife based upon your history but your son is a different matter.

I know it is easier said than done but at some point you have to put your wife's past beyond you. You don't have to do this for her but you do have to do it for you and your son.
__________________
Thoreau: That man is the richest whose pleasures are the cheapest.

Robert Louis Stevenson: Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant.

Tyler Durden: Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old April 26th, 2012, 05:56 PM
SnapRoll's Avatar
SnapRoll SnapRoll is offline
O.S.G. Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 378
SnapRoll has four gold stars
I hear you that you don't need help with the parenting side, just the trigger side, but it looks to me like the two things are woven together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty View Post
I also have deep conversations with my wife about how we can help him. The school does just call me, and weíve set up Ďwhat to doí when he derails.
You can't help him. Parents are like a boxer's trainer at ringside. You prepare him as best as you can and send him out to the world. He may get knocked on his a$$ and you have to stand by, watch and then help pick up the pieces.

You can't prevent your son from making mistakes and you will fail trying and drive yourself mad. It is quintessential NG behavior. Look:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty View Post
The emotions are more like I want to help him so he doesnít make the same mistakes in life. I do not want him to become his mother.
So you think the best thing to do is play offensive tackle for your son and clear the line? He eventually will run past you and get clobbered by the safety. The best offense in this situation is being a good role model. Children see everything and respond accordingly.

Forget whatever you are saying, what are you doing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty View Post
After he pulls this shit, then he understands, can see how wrong he was, and own it. Then pulls the same shit again like he never learned a damn thing. Argh!!!
He pulls this shit because he pulls you in and gets an emotional connection. "Daddy loves me 'cause look at all that emotion". May not be great attention, but is attention. Psychological reward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty View Post
I find myself Ďblindedí by my own emotions to just naturally slip right into opposing her (or my son)...
I go back to my original advice. Stand down. Boundary up. STFU. Let them create their own pile and clean it up. You are enabling bad behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty View Post
Can you see how this is all focused on my wife and my impressions of who she was back then? ...... Yet I know I canít fix them... I know I canít avoid these triggers.
I think this is a separate issue. I don't know your history, except from this thread 'cause I am a newbie.

Turn the tables: Would you respect me, if I had your history, and I had chosen to remain with my wife in spite of the infidelity and try to reconcile?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty View Post
I know Iíll keep Ďrelivingí those fucked up years unless: A) They get their shit together. B) I figure out how to close that chapter of my life. Or C), I run like mad so Iím distanced so far that Iím out of the blast radius and impartial to how they fuck their own lives up.

Iím looking for option B. Thatís what I want and what I believe I can work on. Itís my next step.
Your only option is B. A is beyond your control and C is just delaying the day of reckoning.

As a small aside, I did a Pia Mellody intensive workshop last summer and I have friends who have done it as well. It is an awesome, three or four day deep dive into childhood trauma. My wife did one as well and there were some serious childhood sex traumas in her group. The results were pretty profound.

For your son, look into EMDR - light "therapy". Maybe voodoo, maybe not - I did a little, but was doing a lot of other things as well, so who knows, but it all seemed to help.
__________________
"Truth is tough" - Oliver Wendell Holmes

"Argue for your limitations and they are yours." - Richard Bach in Illusions

Freedom is recognizing that the only thing you have to lose in this world is your authentic self and the only success is living it.

You are writing the script of your life every moment, how's it reading so far?

My BFE's
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old April 26th, 2012, 06:33 PM
pinegreen's Avatar
pinegreen pinegreen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 167
pinegreen has one gold star
Mighty, I feel your pain. I am in a similar situation. Maybe a bit beyond yours in my healing process. I won't go into detail on my story, but this is what helped me.

I did come to the realization that my teenage son and my wife have a bond that is stronger than what I can provide. (crazy or not) The guys gave excellent advise on letting them deal with the consequences of their own actions. You can do that without completely stepping out of their lives. I think that Snaproll has a very rational approach as to what to do. I tried very hard to help in my case, but decided to just mentally let it go. "time will tell"

good luck.
pinegreen
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old April 26th, 2012, 09:10 PM
Tower of Power's Avatar
Tower of Power Tower of Power is offline
Oracle of Masculinity
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,254
Tower of Power has five gold starsTower of Power has five gold starsTower of Power has five gold stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by checked View Post
I would say that you need to focus on something else.

A few years ago I started a garden. I spent 2-3 hours a day pruning, tilling, weeding and watering. It got to be too much and I harvested very little because I started not caring for it.

This year I have things a lot more automated. Pine needle mulch to keep out weeds ---and keep water from evaporating so fast. An underground homebuilt irrigation system that requires I just turn on 2 valves and everything gets watered over the course of a few hours. I spend about 10 hrs a week --total --and I stand to harvest a bunch more than I did when I was micromanaging.


Point is -- you need to automate things. Have in place set punishments for your sons behavior. No need to think -- THIS is the punishment for that.

Also you need to get out. Find a hobby that you enjoy that requires you to get out of the house. Maybe alone--maybe with others---but not the wife or son.

Also --the conversation with the wife.....reiterate the same things. No changes--make it automated so you dont have to devote so much thinking to doing.

This will focus your mind somewhere else and your emotions should follow.
I need to do this more. I get distracted and lose focus, or waste alot of time, if I don't 'automate.'
__________________
ďLife is either a daring adventure or nothing. To keep our faces toward change and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable.Ē H Keller

Who are you?
What do you want?
What do you need to fulfill your purpose and live a good life?
What are you DOING about it?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old April 26th, 2012, 09:58 PM
Mighty's Avatar
Mighty Mighty is offline
O.S.G. Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 897
Mighty has five gold stars
Had another bit of insight tonight watching my youngest. We were watching a movie and the main character you could see was about to do something horribly embarrassing. My youngest is yelling at the tv ďNo.. No... NO! Donít do that! NO!!!!Ē... but they do it anyway and everybody is making fun of them. He runs out of the room upset and angry at their stupidity. Might as describe me as well. I may be a grown man, but sometimes it takes a child to show you where you might be fucking up: Iím trying to make this too emotionally complicated...

So while the space, hobbies and distance help me stay balanced inside the insane asylum... They donít stop me from caring about these idiots. They are MY idiots though; I choose them. It hurts a lot to watch them screw up. And Iíve been focusing all over the place on why I feel this... The answer may just be something simple: I care and just want the best for them. Itís always going to hurt watching them make mistakes and not learning from them.

So, Iíll go back to just accepting THIS is why I feel rage at it all. Knowing Ďwhyí I do this helps me find other ways to direct those feelings so it isnít rage or resentment. Itís a perspective swap thing I do... Itís like because I was associating these feelings with Ďthat horrible pastí, itíd spin up a cyclone of emotions in me; Rage, anger, betrayal start overwhelming because that is what the past is. With this new perspective, I can key in on those more positive aspects: Caring, love, being a father, etc. And things will sync again with my gut. This will help me cope and deal with the onset of those ďWTF did you do?Ē moments and keep my shit together long enough that I can continue to resist thinking about where to hide their bodies.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old April 26th, 2012, 11:43 PM
pinegreen's Avatar
pinegreen pinegreen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 167
pinegreen has one gold star
The answer may just be something simple: I care and just want the best for them. It’s always going to hurt watching them make mistakes and not learning from them.
(quote)


You got it brother. Just keep your shit together!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old April 27th, 2012, 06:39 AM
SnapRoll's Avatar
SnapRoll SnapRoll is offline
O.S.G. Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 378
SnapRoll has four gold stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mighty View Post
So while the space, hobbies and distance help me stay balanced inside the insane asylum... They donít stop me from caring about these idiots. They are MY idiots though; I choose them. It hurts a lot to watch them screw up. And Iíve been focusing all over the place on why I feel this... The answer may just be something simple: I care and just want the best for them. Itís always going to hurt watching them make mistakes and not learning from them.

So, Iíll go back to just accepting THIS is why I feel rage at it all. .....This will help me cope and deal with the onset of those ďWTF did you do?Ē moments and keep my shit together long enough that I can continue to resist thinking about where to hide their bodies.
This sounds good to me.

I have been working hard on the "hurt to watch them make mistakes" with my kids. I keep asking myself why I feel so strongly. Love is part of the answer (and love is good), but for me the bigger trigger is recognizing that the world won't fall apart when folks around me screw up, even if they screw up big time. As a kid, I got blamed or paid the price for just about everything, so I developed a strong aversion to anything but complete order.

So I tried to become Superman. I was a busy guy trying to prevent disaster at every turn with the hope that someday someone would meet my needs. This trickled down into me being a controlling husband and parent. My situation may be different from yours, but everyone in my house is doing so much better now that dad doesn't have his Superman radar on, constantly scanning the world for problems and jumping ahead to fix them.

And when people fall, I can be the most compassionate guy in the world because I am not triggered - I know I didn't do anything to cause the problem.
__________________
"Truth is tough" - Oliver Wendell Holmes

"Argue for your limitations and they are yours." - Richard Bach in Illusions

Freedom is recognizing that the only thing you have to lose in this world is your authentic self and the only success is living it.

You are writing the script of your life every moment, how's it reading so far?

My BFE's
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old April 27th, 2012, 08:03 AM
Tower of Power's Avatar
Tower of Power Tower of Power is offline
Oracle of Masculinity
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,254
Tower of Power has five gold starsTower of Power has five gold starsTower of Power has five gold stars
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinegreen View Post
The answer may just be something simple: I care and just want the best for them. Itís always going to hurt watching them make mistakes and not learning from them.
(quote)

You got it brother. Just keep your shit together!
Thanks Might, SnapRoll and pinegreen. You all have articulated a perspective that helps me alot, since I too lose focus - either from triggers or simple distractions - from time to time.
__________________
ďLife is either a daring adventure or nothing. To keep our faces toward change and behave like free spirits in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable.Ē H Keller

Who are you?
What do you want?
What do you need to fulfill your purpose and live a good life?
What are you DOING about it?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.