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Old July 6th, 2010, 08:24 PM
RufWarrior RufWarrior is offline
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True Freedom: Men Serving Women

Some of you that know me (especially the NJ / NY group) know that the biggest thing that gets underneath my skin are church telling single men things that are so opposite to the NMMNG and my recommended program because they ignore toxic shame, sex addictions, ladder theory, covert contracts, and many other issues. I struggled with these issues for many years until I found NMMNG, and then I still struggled with them because it took me so long to believe what is NMMNG. When I give you all plans, or get on your case about things, it's because of my own past pain.

The church we used to go to, for many years, did a series on dating. I was so upset by this series in 2009, that over the next several months, I wrote a 36 page letter to the pastor outlining my objections. I also included my own life story, with detail of the church girl, whose abandonment of me hit me extremely hard, and other ladies in my life. Probably everything I wrote is somewhere on this board posted by me.

In 2010, they did not do a dating series at the time they normally do it. We don't go anymore, but still get their E-mails. Then I hear about this Man Made series. Then I get an E-mail with the subject I used for this thread "True Freedom: Men Serving Women" about doing repairs at a woman's shelter. If it weren't for the title, I might have actually gone, since I like doing repairs and learning from others.

Here is a link to the three sermons of Man Made. I have not listened to them. I am inviting you to listen to them, and tell me if he says anything of value. I can't, because he might make me so mad. Or perhaps he listened to what I wrote. Note, I do NOT want this to be a thread debating about religion - Dr. Glover already started one of those here

PLEASE TRY TO POST REGARDING THE VIDEO - PERHAPS WATCH #2 OR #3

http://internetcampus.liquidchurch.c...page_id=111566

Last edited by RufWarrior; July 8th, 2010 at 06:11 AM..
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  #2  
Old July 7th, 2010, 07:40 AM
kofcydonia kofcydonia is offline
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I can see why that would make you angry. The fact is, many churches are out of touch, are afraid of the REAL issues affecting people, or don't have the whole story. My church split about 10 years ago - one group wanted to be more "progressive"; with worship, how the message was delivered, etc. The other wanted to stay more in the traditional realm. My family opted to stay with the progressive "side", and I'm glad. The messages are generally pretty good; there were even some on sex addictions, drug addictions, struggling relationships (parents, sig. others) and whatnot. Our senior pastor once flat-out said: "The number one addiction for Christians is sex." He even linked it to shame!

The purse of society still lays claim to the cojones of the average male. It's sad churches don't see this for the most part (I guess mine is an exception).
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  #3  
Old July 7th, 2010, 08:02 AM
JackNicholson JackNicholson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RufWarrior View Post
Here is a link to the three sermons of Man Made. I have not listened to them. I am inviting you to listen to them, and tell me if he says anything of value. I can't, because he might make me so mad. Or perhaps he listened to what I wrote. Note, I do NOT want this to be a thread debating about religion - Dr. Glover already started one of those here

http://internetcampus.liquidchurch.c...page_id=111566
Well, not having listened to the podcast either, the main description seems to start well enough "Our world desperately needs real men. Not the wussified version our culture worships...", that being said, from the rest of their description, I don't think it will go as far as you want it to go.

Why don't you listen to those podcasts yourself? It would be a great desensitization exercise, and could lead to a great psychological release. Imagine them having success in their lives, even if they don't understand or don't follow your new way of thinking. And watch yourself slowly letting go, accepting them for who they are, and learning to enjoy the very things that you're currently perceiving as their unchanging eternal flaws.

May be, you should even video-record yourself once in a while as you're regularly doing this exercise. I bet that your body will be completely rigid at first, that your facial expression will be tense, but that over time, one of the main side-effects will be that you see your body language become more relaxed and much more open (when confronted with the same stimuli, or any of your Nice Guy christian friends, at your workplace or on your doorstep).

- Jack
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Last edited by JackNicholson; July 7th, 2010 at 08:15 AM..
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Old July 7th, 2010, 06:48 PM
MrBulky MrBulky is offline
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This guy is the whole reason I left my church

Being a man, according to this guy, means shutting up, doing a job you hate, taking responsibility for everything and everyone around you, expecting nothing in return, and so on. No, thanks. Find a different church. Incidentally, this advice comes from someone who's been a teacher and a pastor, and as far as I can tell from the first 30 minutes of the first sermon, never held a job at an actual business ever.
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Old July 7th, 2010, 07:28 PM
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LouisianaMan LouisianaMan is offline
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I believe that many churches cater to women that make poor choices in men. Several people here have mentioned this in the past. The Preacher gets up there and blasts guys that love them, impregnate them and leave them. At the same time many of these women do not give the time of day to safer, more Christian men. Too many Church Ladies want the dangerous guy and want to tame them. Then they get really bitter if they can't tame them.

Preachers need to cover both sides of the problem. These ministers should not set up their good males to fail. They should also remind certain ladies that THEY made poor decisions and continue the same mistakes repeatedly.

LouisianaMan
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Old July 7th, 2010, 11:01 PM
Jay73 Jay73 is offline
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Guys, please don't get me started. This subject makes my blood broil. I'll just say this: Fem-think has completely taken over many churches. In most congregations the leadership is lead by women(even if the pastor is a man), to the benefit of women. The obligations of servitude and being more like Christ usually center around the duties of men. Meanwhile the instruction to women is that they are inherently the weaker vessel. Since they're weaker men MUST be called to higher service in the body of Christ. Rubbish.

There is no difference in the subtle teachings of men/women in the church than in society at large. Both are feminized, both reward or tolerate bad behavior among women and excoriate men and their masculinity for the slightest misstep. That's one of the reasons why few churches teach Proverbs 31 and when it's taught it's to remind men that the man depicted in the scripture was a hard working, hard earning man that took care of her needs. This shows no sign of letting up in our lifetime. This is why I'm grateful for the message of Dr. G because he along with many others "gets" us. I'm not a slave, I'm free. I'm not a paycheck with a penis.
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Old July 8th, 2010, 03:24 AM
Porscheguy Porscheguy is offline
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Why can't women do the repair work on the women's shelter? We're all the same, right?
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  #8  
Old July 8th, 2010, 06:12 AM
RufWarrior RufWarrior is offline
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If you could watch one of the videos (preferably #2 or #3 since Mr.Bulky saw #1) before posting, that would be good.
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  #9  
Old July 8th, 2010, 10:09 AM
MrBulky MrBulky is offline
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Read "Wild at Heart"

Great book about the exact opposite point of view.

And look at Jesus himself. He wasn't meek, cooperative, or anyone's slave. This was the guy who attacked the moneychangers at the temple, hung around with whores, tax collectors and other untouchables, and literally baited and antagonized the Romans until they killed him, which he knew they would. He had a temper. He was almost completely uncooperative, in the service of what he believed.

The thing that really got me angry about this dickhead (this is a guy who also seems to believe in, among other things, the Rapture, which is one small step away from wearing a tinfoil hat) is the part of the first sermon where he talks about how, as a young man, your first job(s) are inevitably going to absolutely suck -- boring, low pay, etc -- but that's your fate. You are supposed to just accept it. Where is that written? It doesn't matter whether you're a baker, a mechanic, a lawyer or a cowboy, the idea that if you want anything more out of a first job than a paycheck and suffering, you're being selfish -- is just plain evil. This is pure propaganda, intended to serve the church, not you or me, and it's very loosely connected to actual faith.
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