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Old May 28th, 2011, 12:25 PM
freedrestraints freedrestraints is offline
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Question Anyone tried Homer MacDonald's "jiu jitsu" technique?

I was rummaging around my parents' house and found an old diary of mine. The dating was interesting, it ran from mid-2008 through mid-2009 and included the 9 months leading up to when I discovered that my wife had been messing around on the internet with guys.

At that time I knew I had a bad marriage, which was getting worse.

At the time I was doing phone coaching with a "Divorce Busting" counselor (http://www.divorcebusting.com/telephone_coaching.htm) named Joanne, who works out of the Chicago area. My handwriting is really hard to read, but one note I wrote around the end of 2008 says "No sex 2 years" (that dry spell was broken a few times in 2010, but stopped again in October)

I remember feeling miserable at that time, even worse than I do now, which is strange in a way because not much has gotten better. I guess it's like having a disease and going to the doctor and feeling better to know what's killing you.

I was casting about for strategies to make the marriage better. Wife was ignoring pleas for joint counseling.

I was really trying to synthesize ideas on how to move forward. On one page I drew a triangle.

On one side of the triangle was written "Interest Level.". That meant "my wife's interest level", which has been basically zero romantically for some time. There was an arrow pointed to that side of the triangle that said "Doc Love". I used to listen to an internet radio show that Doc Love did (at http://www.askmen.com/dating/doclove/), but eventually it started getting blocked by iTunes, or was otherwise difficult to grab so I stopped. I ordered a book product of his but found it to be horribly written so it did nothing for me at the time. One concept he had was "one woman - one romance - one time" which meant that once a lady's interest level in a man dropped below 50%, it would never recover - I had felt my wife was below that point, but occasionally looked for signs that things were recoverable.

On another side of the triangle was written "Man-Up". This meant to become less of a nice guy. Funny I have returned full circle to this at this point, with not much to show for the past 3 years. There were 5 arrows pointed at this side of the triangle. They were based on podcasts I was listening to or audiobooks I had. They said
- Carlos Xuma
- Scott McKay (X&Y communications)
- The Dean?? I don't remember who this is, may have been a podcaster
- Player Supreme - a podcaster
- No More Mr Nice Guy (I had the audiobook, but it kind of got lost in the shuffle) One key difference between then and now for me is that I joined the OSG here and started meeting with a NMMNG men's group, which kind of holds my progress and actions up to a mirror.

On the third side of the tirangle was written "Jiu Jitsu"
To this side of the triangle was pointed an arrow named "Homer McDonald". I had ordered his "Stop Your Divorce" book at http://www.stopyourdivorce.com/ One of his key concepts is the "Jiu Jitsu" technique. Lifting the key points about this from that site, the technique is as follows:

When one person is wanting a divorce or is pulling away, and the other one doesn't want it, there is a clash of wills.

There is tension.

There is stress.

So I've discovered the psychology of applying the jujitsu wrestling technique, where the wrestler uses the strength, energy and weight of his opponent to their own advantage, and to the disadvantage of their opponent.

We cannot get to the good feelings of your wife, husband or lover. We cannot get to those good feelings as long as this war is going on, as long as you communicate to them that you want something differentfrom what they want.

I remember years ago, when I was using hypnosis. A woman was lying on the couch and I was suggesting muscle-relaxing all over.

And then I was doing the deepening and testing process of "your right hand and your right arm are getting light, like a feather." After suggesting that for about five minutes, at the most ten minutes, the person's hand always begins to float upward because they're giving in to their imagination and following the suggestion.

This woman's hand didn't move at all after ten or fifteen minutes. So I said, "Are you feeling anything in your right hand and right arm?"

She said in a very relaxed, almost sleepy voice, "Yes. My right hand and my right arm are getting heavier and heavier."

See, the opposite of what I suggested.

So I said, "Good. Your right hand and right arm are getting heavier and heavier. Heavier and heavier." And I kept on that way.

In about two or three minutes, her hand was floating up in the air. And of course, this is what psychologists call negative suggestibility.

When the other person is pulling away from you or wanting a divorce or wanting separation, they are almost automatically on the opposite side of any fence that they perceive you as being on.

So use the jujitsu. Go with them.

Now here are three elements, three ideas, three strategies, all under the heading of the jujitsu technique.

1. Stop pressuring, stop criticizing, stop complaining, stop whining.

2. Agree with anything your mate says or does. Put a good name on it. Agree with their negative feelings.

You see, when one partner has a closed mind and is divorcing the other, they are in love with their negative feelings. So they put their negative feelings in charge of the door to their mind. And when you try to reason with them, you're telling them that their negative feelings are wrong. That causes their negative feelings to lock the door tighter.

Agree with their negative feelings - whatever they are.

"Yes, this relationship is hopeless."

"Yes, you will never be able to trust me. That's exactly correct."

Do not defend yourself.

Just agree, sound sincere, and shut up.

3. Act perfectly happy about everything as it is.

The status quo - as it is. Act perfectly happy. Enjoy your space. Enjoy your freedom. Tell them that they are correct - that you all were getting too serious too fast - or whatever their interpretation is that they've given to you. Agree with it, and act happy about whatever it is that they want.

This uses jujitsu, and it always works.


OK, so this technique is interesting, but I feel that if I did full jiu jitsu with my wife, there is a reasonable likelihood that she would bring home the plumber (or equivalent character - this is a straw man without specifics) or something and have sex in our bed while I was in the house. She would be telling the guy like "Oh, don't worry, my husband is totally OK with this."

I think where I want to go from here on out is to be more assertive about what I want. I want to be the rock that the water of my wife has to flow around. That doesn't mean I want to argue a lot. Also, I have decided that the divorce is NOT worth stopping at all costs.

I would appreciate others' thoughts. As you can see, I have a tendency to stuff my head full of advice from too many "gurus" at once and try to follow the last one I read, when at the end, their ideas may be opposed.
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Old May 28th, 2011, 01:34 PM
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Yeah, too many gurus at once is confusing.

Homer McDonald is really good, I really like his stuff. It is intended for the situation where your wife is openly asking for a divorce (or break-up) and where you want that not to happen.

In other circumstances, it does not apply.

It says nothing about changing yourself.
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Old May 28th, 2011, 02:03 PM
freedrestraints freedrestraints is offline
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My wife doesn't ask for a divorce that frequently anymore (she definitely does not follow through either), AND I'm also no longer sure I DON'T want to have a divorce anymore. So, I'm going to set aside Homer's ideas (unless you know of something else he wrote besides that Stop Your Divorce book that applies).
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Old May 28th, 2011, 02:08 PM
btr btr is offline
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Like his stuff--his responses are a type of fogging How would she feel if she knew you were dating?
The fact that you feel your wife would sleep with a plumber says it all friend time to man up and move on
divorce busting is a waste--tried it look at the forum where the divorce is happening one of the largest on there
Your best bet is to divorce and work on yourself so you can be the rock for a really great woman
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Old May 28th, 2011, 02:20 PM
freedrestraints freedrestraints is offline
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Originally Posted by btr View Post
How would she feel if she knew you were dating?
If she even suspected I was dating, her opinion of my attractiveness on a scale of 1-10 would probably go up by 4 points (I have a lot of room). I will go look at his book again sometime.
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Old May 28th, 2011, 06:39 PM
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I also think Homer McDonald is really good but you must mix into it some form of boundary setting to protect yourself.

The example of bringing the plumber home is a really good one. I mean no-one in my opinion would want this to happen and this is where boundary setting comes in.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 12:19 AM
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Homer MacDonald is excellent. His advice also applies everywhere I would say.

There is always the possiblity that your wife could come home with the plumber with or without you following some guru's advice. True jujitsu is when you have learned to be fine that she wants whatever she wants. That is after all what true love is. She will only go this if she thinks you will sit around moping after her, if however she knows you will dump her, and move on with your life because you have confidence and faith that you will get another woman, she is much more likely to stay.
So if she wants to go with the plumber, great thats what you should want.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedrestraints View Post
My wife doesn't ask for a divorce that frequently anymore (she definitely does not follow through either), AND I'm also no longer sure I DON'T want to have a divorce anymore...
What exactly are you trying to accomplish with this "guru" BS? Sounds like your cheater wife lost all respect for you a while back. Have you tried to simply look her in the eye and tell her with a strong/neutral tone that you will start divorce proceedings unless some things change?
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Old January 12th, 2012, 09:34 AM
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My dynamic changed on divorce when my wife threatened like for the 10th time and I put 3 divorce lawyer cards on the table and said choose one.
I have not heard the D word since ...
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Old January 12th, 2012, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by lovedynamics View Post
So if she wants to go with the plumber, great thats what you should want.
I'm surprised no one has said this but you sir are a fucktard. Piss off with your mindless dribble.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 03:33 PM
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Freed,

I do believe you can read too many self-help books on this topic. My personal limit is about two. Anymore and you subject yourself to paralysis by analysis.

Pick any one of these books and treat it as your North Star, your guiding light. You get too many voices running around your head and you have dis-order - no true strategy for your life plan. Too many chefs spoil the soup. Too many gurus mix you up. Settle on a plan and start living rather than reading yet another cookbook on how to make your life just so. IN short, go start living and interacting. See what happens.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 12:16 AM
lovedynamics lovedynamics is offline
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I'm surprised no one has said this but you sir are a fucktard. Piss off with your mindless dribble.
Thank you so much kind sir, I now have a new and amusing word to add to my vocabulary, although I don't think I will use it very often.
As I joined this forum in the spirit of learning and sharing, and I am sure you are here also to benefit others, so I would ask you to share and explain your point of view?
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Old January 13th, 2012, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by lovedynamics View Post
Thank you so much kind sir, I now have a new and amusing word to add to my vocabulary, although I don't think I will use it very often.
As I joined this forum in the spirit of learning and sharing, and I am sure you are here also to benefit others, so I would ask you to share and explain your point of view?
I could be wrong but I get two impressions:-

1. You are trying to sell us stuff.
2. You have absolutely no idea when it comes to relationships although you will offer paid advice on it. Personally I find it offensive for you to suggest I should be comfortable with my wife sleeping with the plumber.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 02:25 AM
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You find it offensive that you should be comfortable with your wife sleeping with the plumber...

I'd like to have a look at reasons for the above statement...

Because you don't truly love her, your idea of love is to put someone in a box of conformity. Bound by your own expectations. You then will act hurt were she to break these rules. Perfectly "normal" behaviour in society, but its not True Love, and as you demonstrate in your sentence, you've lost your peace of mind just thinking about it, so if it actually happens, you are going to be screwed. Ironically not by her or the plumber but by yourself.

You aren't comfortable because you depend on your wife for your happiness,
& your mind automatically focuses on your deprivation, on what you can't have, you fail to see the positive to the situation, what great freedom has been presented to you. (What could that be ? New and exciting Women ? ....)

You aren't comfortable likely because this thought interferes in your idea of your identity as a male. To be a man is exactly that - BEING a man. If you really are just BEING a man you would know that no woman's behaviour affects how much of a man you are. A woman comes and stays with a man as a result of his being a sexual man, but often people get this confused and think that their male sexual identity comes from the combination of man + woman.

Homer MacDonald, I believe is teaching people how to retain peace of mind in situations such as divorces affairs etc and you do that by learning not to need (actually unlearning "needing") and by changing your view of the world from one of deprivation to one of abundance. e.g instead of focusing on your wife that isn't loving you anymore YOU change your focus to see the abundance of other women available. This is essentially the Jijitsu technique he mentions in action.
It doesn't mean that you want that your wife goes off with anyone and everyone, but it does mean that should the situation arise you can be happy with the current reality and you have faith in your ability to handle it.
Its not possible to handle it well or use something like the jijitsu technique if you are dependent, needing, and Unrelaxed...

----------------------------------------------------------------------


re selling "stuff", I don't recall offering to sell you anything, but yes of course you are right, I do make money in this world by selling my talents. I certainly don't claim to know everything, but I am certain I have knowledge that can help many people.

Participating on this forum I am purely interested in learning and sharing with others, so I thank you sincerely for the opportunity.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 06:31 AM
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lovedynamics--


While I can see your point in the abstract sense--you have that aura of buddhist/grasshopper/kungfu bullshit about you. This is the real world.

If you truly are interested in learning I suggest backing away from the keyboard until you read a few hundred threads to get a sense of what this forum is about.
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