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  #61  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 09:42 AM
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Like ice cream, great as it is but after a while you’ll want to add toppings or eat it out of cones instead of bowls, or use it to make shakes, etc…

Just remember that hot choclate sauce can be hot. I got burns from it once!
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  #62  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 09:45 AM
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Exactly where were you burned.....Hmmm?
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  #63  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 10:57 AM
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Just remember that hot choclate sauce can be hot. I got burns from it once!
OWWWWWW.... although I've had other injuries in a similar location....

Then, with ice cream you get a whole new set of complications... it's like diving into a freezing pool.
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  #64  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 11:40 AM
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Exactly where were you burned.....Hmmm?

Cheap hotel in Majorca........
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  #65  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 12:04 PM
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Thanks Boricua , For Me and Tinkerbelle, I'll consider your responses and write back here sometime.

Thing is I think I'm not ready for dating. I'm about having fun, I can do that. I'm not ready for a relationship with a man yet.

Tinkerbelle I need to find what I am looking for and want, before I put myself out there in the dating scene.

I know what pleases men. I get that really well yet I lost myself somewhere in it from my teenage years on. There has to be a me , that is accepted for all of who I am the next time round in a long-term relationship.

I live with my Mom now and she knows how to please men too. She coaches me to be my best everyday. To look , feel and be my best.
The catch is , it's often in relation to perfecting this outer package that will impress and get me a greater selection of men. Maybe that's reality , that's the way the world really works between men and women. That's what ToP is saying and you have a handle on it. You both remind me of my mother's voice.


I can play that game now. But I don't want to lose the bit of self I'm finding to this game of sex and attraction. I want to find love not just sex. Tink , sex is easily had for most women , is it not? Okay I've snagged me some sex for the night. Then what?

I don't want my power to be found in a man anymore. I feel like TaoZen, Hawkeye and Uber say more of what my own voice sounds like.
( Uber, odd you call TZ out when I sense you both share similar values).

Is that not the reality of the world ? That men and women can be friends? Can find a love greater than sexual love?

If I truly loved a man, and he was involved in a debilitating accident or illness that left him paralyzed and impotent.
Would he still not be himself? The man I love and adore? Even minus the sex?
Sure sex is great , I get that. Not much I have tried experimenting with except the goats, and I can just ask Checked and Chevy what they think of it.

I'm not prioritizing sex right now.

I want the kind of love that = mutual respect/ acceptance. I want an honest intimacy before the chocolate sauce. I think that comes from friends first and will be slow growing , everlasting.

Sorry if I categorized anyone inappropriately , I'm in leftbrain mode after a rightbrain type weekend.
I've blurted this uneditted during my lunchbreak which is now over. Revisions - additions to come later...
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  #66  
Old May 22nd, 2012, 03:58 PM
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C'mon For Me--do you always have to go to the lowest level......

Quote:
Originally Posted by checked View Post
Just remember that hot choclate sauce can be hot. I got burns from it once!


Oh sure... when YOU do it... it's funny...
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I have come to the cross-roads in my life. I always knew what the right path was... but I never took it. You know why? It was too damn hard! Now here's FOR ME... He has chosen a path. It's the right path... a path made of principle that leads to character...
- Scent of a Woman

"What would you do if you weren't afraid?"
- Who Moved My Cheese?

NO FEAR, NO DOUBT, ALL IN, BALLS OUT!
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Lt Speirs to a NG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5YpUsDsHmk
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  #67  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 11:39 AM
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Oh sure... when YOU do it... it's funny...

Its in the best interest of the pubic. Wouldnt want other to repeat my mistakes.......
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  #68  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 02:52 PM
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Is that not the reality of the world ? That men and women can be friends? Can find a love greater than sexual love?
From a man's perspective, there is no demonstration of love deeper than true sexual intimacy. Not sex, but sexual intimacy. They are very different.

IMs do not SEEK out friendships with women. If a woman is attractive to him, then the IM wants sex with her and will lead in that direction. If she isn't attractive to the IM, why not invest time, energy and effort in women that they want to sex from?

If they aren't IM, then they may accept a friendship as a "guise" and a "hope" for something more from the woman.

Now does that mean that friendships can't happen with an IM? Perhaps if they share a love of a particular activity and he is getting laid by another woman and doesn't see her as attractive. But, it won't likely be an intimate friendship, because he isn't going to invest a lot of time an energy.
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Six things that I look for in a woman:

(1) I am attracted to her.
(2) We enjoy at least one activity together (other than dining out or travel).
(3) She is self-responsible (emotionally, physically, financially, relationally).
(4) We are sexually compatible.
(5) She does not want children.
(6) She is an active explorer.
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  #69  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 04:02 PM
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enigma - conundrum - conflict

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From a man's perspective, there is no demonstration of love deeper than true sexual intimacy. Not sex, but sexual intimacy. They are very different.
Okay I'm starting to see that M/F one-on-ones are dishonest if sexual agenda is not explicitly brought out in the open. And it's given an IM will make it clear if he's attracted or he'd not waste his time.

So I'm not doing the one-on-ones with men right now because I don't want just sex.
Instead planning group canoe outings and hikes instead in the upcoming weeks.

I can start becoming aware and assessing character in these group settings then because the sex vs sexual intimacy has me puzzled at the moment. This sex by roughly date #3 thing.
I don't want to have 'just sex' with a guy, but how can sexual intimacy be achieved by only sharing 3 dates together ? I see a conflict happening right there.

Being, isn't intimacy (sexual and otherwise) developed the more one knows another person ? And doesn't that take time?

If I engage in the dating game/process , I'll be having 'just sex' with upteen dozen men all of whom I've gone on several dates with . Getting laid by different ones night after night, but that wasn't what I wanted in the first place.

Dating multiple men while assessing character, sex (not intimacy but basically rubbing parts together because they're still near strangers but 'potential' great men) by date #3 .

How do women do all this shit? All I need now is Checked to remind me of my SMV dropping too and I'm really screwed .. both figuratively & literally
Clearly I'm not ready for any of this dating stuff.
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  #70  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 04:39 PM
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Sexual intimacy DOES NOT all of a sudden happen, like throwing a switch. It develops over time with a deepening of the emotional connection and with more sex. You have to take a risk with the right guy and you have to do it open-heartedly and with no expectations. You have to be in the space of just accepting that it is fun and that you will learn about him and more importantly, about yourself.

The point is that an IM will wait a while for sex from a woman as having RGW potential. But what I've found in practice is that nearly every woman that I have dated wanted sex earlier than I. I would take the time to evaluate their character. But perhaps that is tied more to SMV. I am 51 and the women that I am dating are in their 40's. And I have found them to have been frequently without a guy in their life in some time.

If you go into dating thinking it is a game, it will become a game. I describe it more as a full contact sport. You can have fun, you might get hurt but you certainly can't play it safe. If you want safe, there is no such thing in life.

So as my girlfriend has said "sometimes you just have to put on your big girl panties". I encourage you to do that when the time is right and you feel confident that you can have sex without expectation and that you can manage any fear of abandonment that might be triggered should the man decide to move on elsewhere or if you should decide he wasn't right for you.

Your reply reminded me of something funny about my last GF. When I met her I told her that I was going to give her a call and make a date to go biking. She said, I don't think that would be a date. I said, you can call it anything that you want, but if I invite you, it is a date! In retrospect, a NG would have said something like "OK, we don't have to call it a date if you don't want to..."
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Six things that I look for in a woman:

(1) I am attracted to her.
(2) We enjoy at least one activity together (other than dining out or travel).
(3) She is self-responsible (emotionally, physically, financially, relationally).
(4) We are sexually compatible.
(5) She does not want children.
(6) She is an active explorer.
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  #71  
Old May 23rd, 2012, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
I can start becoming aware and assessing character in these group settings then because the sex vs sexual intimacy has me puzzled at the moment. This sex by roughly date #3 thing.
I don't want to have 'just sex' with a guy, but how can sexual intimacy be achieved by only sharing 3 dates together ? I see a conflict happening right there.
It's worth mentioning that Glover's online dating course recommends that Nice Guys wait until 90 days before sex so you have a chance to evaluate character and compatibility.

I'm doubtful of how much we say will be of value to you. We (or at least some )will be able to explain how IM's work and all but as far as dealing with men it seems that women know better how to do this because they actually do it.

Anyway, I don't see why you have to have sex by date 3 if you don't want to.

I also don't know that you have to strictly separate sex and friendship either. Why should friendship come first and sexuality a month later? It seems like one might have priority. I could see for me sexuality having priority but without connection, at this point it's just . I want both. Perhaps something like this but in reverse would work for you. Friendship might have priority but without sexuality it just won't work.
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  #72  
Old May 24th, 2012, 10:07 AM
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Very valuable input those last two posts. Thanks guys I am charting my path in unknown territory and you are kind enough to describe some of the terrain.

I was being facetious emphasizing the three date rule.. I do like the idea of 90 days being a better template to follow, makes more sense to not let sex cloud the judgement and decision making. I find it does moreso for men in my past experience. I've learned how to detach a lot from the act of sex. I can completely go right brain, passionate in the moment with it with near strangers. Today I question the value of having developed that *skill*. It's made me sought after, because I'm no strings attached kind of woman, but I do get your emoticon about sex with no connection feeling Hawkeye. BTDT .

What I haven't done yet is share sex with someone I was in truly ,deeply in love and intimately known to and by the other person .


*********
I know where my path is going by certain events that stand in my mind and steer my direction. Here's one lately. I was standing outside a busy city street waiting for my son's hockey game to begin and a billboard caught my eye so I wandered over to read it.
It was the concert schedule for the royal conservatory of music. And a musician caught my eye, I'd heard of this Hawaiian before and zeroed in on the details of her performances.

Then I looked up and a couple of welldressed men were briskly walking past into the building. I smiled at them, one looked past me and the other looked me up and down and I did not like the expression on his face. It was unkind. How do I describe it? Arrogant, elitist?
Ohhh , then I realize looking down at my hockey mom attire: Jeans, running shoes, polar fleece jacket, hair in a ponytail.
Little did he know how much he challenged me. Bring it on buddy.

So now I'm going to attend concerts and performances at this conservatory. Either by myself or invite people along, but I will belong there, and in the process meet some really great people and I'm sure learn a ton about quality music.

That's my stubborn streak , I dare anyone to tell me I don't belong where I want to be in this world, or that I'm not good enough and I *will* prove them wrong. I've wondered if I developed this trait from being an adopted child, I'm not sure, but it's a strong motivator for me. I see this trait has been passed onto both my children, particularly my son .

I have another story of a woman acquaintance ( could become friend?) named Mel who is exactly my age and lived a very different life than me. A single, gorgeous, petite, total selfreliant entrepreneur, she never married or had children and she still lives the single life, going out nearly every weekend to socializing and partying with fun people.

She frequents a club called the Liquid Kitty until late Saturday nights.
You can't even disguise the fact this is a meat market, they could have named it the Wet Pussy or the Juicy Beaver, but Liquid Kitty is the name.

Will I go there with her some night? Really I have no interest in going other than mild curiosity and for a laugh. I'll have fun dressing the part for an evening, wearing a hot-pink t-shirt that somehow lists my price across my chest or back.

Then I'll invite Mel to come ziplining with me. Men and women strapped into their harnesses jumping from platforms, catching each other and it will be a different kind of fun.

I do know the type of man I'm attracted to and he won't be found in the Liquid Kitty. That will end up being a girls night out

Last edited by Autumn; May 24th, 2012 at 10:18 AM..
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  #73  
Old May 25th, 2012, 02:32 AM
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I may have glossed this over, but why not stick with other gals for intimate fun friendships? Unless they pitch for the other team, there would be no hidden agenda to worry about.

There's plenty of women who like to do active/adventure stuff.

Call me old-fashoined, I think men and women are built for a very unique type of relationship together - its such a joyous occurence that you have to shout about it from the top of your lungs in the middle of the night (or day).

I only gravitate toward women I find physically attractive (and I find many women physically attractive). So therefore, any pretense of friendship I may have gets thrown out the window at square one. My agenda is always sexual, even when I try to tell myself it isn't. I can get away with it in the work environment (force myself to treat women like coworkers and not potential lovers) but its a necessary task for me. I don't want my friendships to be tasks where I have to suppress myself to a great degree.
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"A Man's Got To Know His Limitations...and kick those limitations straight in the nuts and keep moving forward." - Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry in "Magnum Force" - with modification by me.

A collection of useful threads! Read!

Last edited by Boricua; May 25th, 2012 at 11:49 AM..
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  #74  
Old May 25th, 2012, 10:13 AM
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Boricua , wow you are so correct on this. It's starting to sink in more today, the illusive obvious I keep avoiding.

I attract in both sexes outwardly anxious people. Men I can soothe with sex or the hope and promise of it, and women by listening to them chatter and I go into my masculine and calmly succinctly steer the flow of conversation.

What am I getting out of doing that? My own anxiety soothed by "helping" others.
I know why I do that too , from my childhood relationships particularly with my mother. No need to elaborate on that at the moment except to stay aware of why I naturally gravitate to setups that recreate the old familiar patterns.

I think the bar crowd will be more of meeting the same old relationship dynamic that I need to get away from in order to grow out of my people-pleasingness.
So I'll nix the bar scene/ nightclubs, it's not in my best interest to go there.

In retrospect from my last post , there is no need to prove to anyone else that I belong at the conservatory of music, but I can still go to a performance anytime I want , for my own interest.

So , where I meet calmer people are in the arts and outdoors. Places where people have trained themselves to be quiet , still and to just "be" sometimes.
I'll keep with pottery, gardening, painting and knitting groups that are exclusively/ predominantly women.
I've been invited to 2 kayak and canoe group outings ( the fellow kayaker emailed me this morning with 2 group excursions which suits me better now.)

I'll keep making decisions one event, one conversation/ interaction at a time that point me in the direction of female friendships.
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  #75  
Old May 28th, 2012, 09:27 PM
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Sounds like a great plan Autumn :-) My relationships with men were and are key for my continued recovery. I can't see how it would be different for a woman to find friends of her own sex.... no hidden sexual agendas!
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Six things that I look for in a woman:

(1) I am attracted to her.
(2) We enjoy at least one activity together (other than dining out or travel).
(3) She is self-responsible (emotionally, physically, financially, relationally).
(4) We are sexually compatible.
(5) She does not want children.
(6) She is an active explorer.
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