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Old October 8th, 2012, 08:13 PM
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Disrespectful wife

Here's my story:

I met my wife at age 20, she was 33, recently seperated, and had two kids. I am now her third husband and we have a three year old toghether in addition to the older kids who are now young teens. She comes from a family of dominant women and her mother is also on her third husband.

When we first moved toghether she was working and i was in school. She paid all the bills and pretty much ran the roost at home. Through the years, the balance of income changed up until about three years years ago where she ended up working two days a week and i'm gone two weeks solid per month.

Now i'm 29 and she is going on 42. I have changed alot in the last few years and have gone from being a young man/kid to a grown up. I bought our house, I provide for all of us except for the groceries and electric bill. My wife also contributes to the house hold in addition to being an excellent mom.

Here's where the chain falls off for me: My wife is still trying to rule the roost, and is disrepectful. I find myself in constant competition with her about all sorts of petty things. She will try to pull rank, tell me what to do, and then check up on my work later to then criticize it. Her cover is "well it needs to be done this way, why can't you help me".

Adittionally, she will go from the happy end of the spectrum to narcisistic and even beligerant in less than five minutes. She is incredibly moody. When she is moody she constantly tries to find things to get upset about.

I don't put up with it. I tell her that I disagree after which she falls into this narcisistic spiral where she talk to herself out loud about how terrible her life is and how unsupportive a husband she has. I have the attitude of "whatever she does I must do the right thing". So i spend time on the kids I cook and occasionally help her clean the house. In adittion I do all the "man stuff" such as housework, construction and fixing our cars.

My occupation is listed as the one of the most dangerous and stressfull jobs in the country but I have not been asked once about it recent memory. Conversation is allways about how I can help her with her tasks at home and how stressful her life is and for the most part I oblige. I understand the relentnessness nature of being at home with the kids but I don't get the resentment and disrespect from her side.

The worst part though is the disrespect. Last time at home we were having an argument, in summary it went like this:

Wife: (pissed) you are selfish, I worked today and you didn't even make dinner...

Me: I offered to make dinner but you said the kids were fine and that you didn't wan't any yourself.

Wife: well, I didn't want to feed the kids that non-organic crap chicken and rice dish you usually make.

Me: (pissed) You are about to feed them buttered ravioli for the third night in a row and you are knocking home cooked chicken with whole graine rice and peas!?!

Wife: (beligerant) I do a damn good job of taking care of my kids. They like cheese ravioli!

Me: (pissed) they like pop-tarts too but that doesn't mean we should feed them that!

Wife: **** YOU!!! (now screaming in my face so close that i could feel her teath on my nose) I HATE YOU!!!

Me: Silent.

All this happened in front of my three year old. I know i could have been more sensitive and beat around the bush but the fact is that she cannot handle it when i disagree with her ways. Her way is the right way and I better do it like she does, and when I do it isn't good enough.

I'm thinking that one problem could be the age difference she often pulls rank on subjects because of her age. Even though she may not have much knowledge on the subject she will claim that due to hear age and empirical experience she knows best.


If I push hard enough on a subject ,and provided that i'm right, she settles down and will adopt my idea. But I don't want to go through life with a combative, ultra-testy, explosive spouse. I'm not enjoying this and I have one foot out the door. We have gone to counseling for three sessions but all the MC did was to take notes. I don't know if thats normal but neither of us have the time for three sessions of no help or pointers.

I have had a talk with her about how important it is for a man to feel respected. How I value traditional family dynamics of a man of the house (not a tyrant but a leader and provider), A mother and kids. How I feel that those roles are equal but different. I think that she likes the feminist way though. I may not be man enough to change that around. I don't know if anyone is.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 11:04 PM
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Welcome to the board. Chevy will be along with his standard speech soon enough.

In the meantime, it really doesn't seem like you're a "Nice Guy" in the traditional definition laid out in the NMMNG book. You are standing up for what you believe and charting your own course. Good work!

It does sound like you have a domineering wife who likes/needs to be in control. This probably contributed to the success of your relationship. She needed to have somebody 13 years younger than her so that she could be dominant in the relationship. The problem is that you've grown up and you are assuming the male role that you should.

You will not change her, unfortunately. You ultimately will have to decide what you will accept in a relationship. I really don't think there's much that you can change in your approach. I think you are setting appropriate boundaries and calling her out when necessary. You are not shrinking from your role. She simply may never be secure enough to allow you to assume that role.

One question. Any insight on what caused her first two divorces? My hunch is that the other dudes wouldn't let her be in control the way she wanted either. That lead her to "rob the cradle," (so to speak) to get a man she could control. You've foiled her plan by growing into a reliable, mature man capable of leading the household.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 11:13 PM
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Warn her about the disrespect. The next time she disrespects you -- spank her.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 11:17 PM
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I think we can all guess why she divorced twice!

What do you want? If she can't give it to you, what are you willing to do about it?

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Old October 9th, 2012, 12:16 AM
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Wow. A 33 year old marrying a 20 year old. Yeah, you don't sound like a Nice Guy to me. But the married guys should be able to tell you what works for them.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabbejokker View Post
Me: I offered to make dinner but you said the kids were fine and that you didn't wan't any yourself.
"Honey, I'm going to make dinner". Then go and do it unless she has a better idea. Kids will eat just about anything. She doesn't have to eat it if she doesn't want to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabbejokker View Post
Wife: **** YOU!!! (now screaming in my face so close that i could feel her teath on my nose) I HATE YOU!!!

Me: Silent.
When people are trying to get in my face, I like to yawn at them. Would be a perfect response here. But Silence is a reasonable alternative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabbejokker View Post
I have had a talk with her about how important it is for a man to feel respected.
You can do the things that will earn self respect. But you have no control at all over her opinion of you. Don't ask other people for respect.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
When people are trying to get in my face, I like to yawn at them. Would be a perfect response here. But Silence is a reasonable alternative.
A sh!t eating grin is also a good option.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still Standing View Post
Welcome to the board. Chevy will be along with his standard speech soon enough.

In the meantime, it really doesn't seem like you're a "Nice Guy" in the traditional definition laid out in the NMMNG book. You are standing up for what you believe and charting your own course. Good work!

It does sound like you have a domineering wife who likes/needs to be in control. This probably contributed to the success of your relationship. She needed to have somebody 13 years younger than her so that she could be dominant in the relationship. The problem is that you've grown up and you are assuming the male role that you should.

You will not change her, unfortunately. You ultimately will have to decide what you will accept in a relationship. I really don't think there's much that you can change in your approach. I think you are setting appropriate boundaries and calling her out when necessary. You are not shrinking from your role. She simply may never be secure enough to allow you to assume that role.

One question. Any insight on what caused her first two divorces? My hunch is that the other dudes wouldn't let her be in control the way she wanted either. That lead her to "rob the cradle," (so to speak) to get a man she could control. You've foiled her plan by growing into a reliable, mature man capable of leading the household.
Your post makes alot of sense. Why would a 35 year old woman want to marry a 22 year old unless she wanted a sub

When she was asked why she married me she says I was this sweet person she fell in love with. However, she says i have grown hard and mean. I'll take that as no longer easily permeable and submisive...
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Old October 9th, 2012, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabbejokker View Post
When she was asked why she married me she says I was this sweet
boy
Quote:
she fell in love with. However, she says i have grown
into a man
Quote:
I'll take that as no longer easily permeable and submisive...
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  #10  
Old October 9th, 2012, 07:29 AM
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Okay this is actually one of the easier problems to solve, at least in my mind. No cheating going on, no physical abuse going on and there was no mention of a poor sex life, which is the biggest complaint of the Niceguy.

Here is my 2 cents that I have recently come to the epiphany of. Some where along the line men have come to understand they need to be more sensative, more understanding and coddle our women. We try to "connect" with them and the end result is they end up viewing us like girlfriends rather than husbands. Screw that!

What you need to stop being sensative, stop asking her what she wants. You want to make a healthy dinner for your kids, do it. She complains, calmly hand her the phone and say she can call for take out if she desires.

Sit her down and tell her there will be no more fighting in front of the kids and from now on disagreements will be talked about rationally. Tell her that if she cannot take part in a rational conversation without screaming, berating and belittle, you will remove yourself from the conversation until she can talk to you with a very basic level of respect.

Above all you need to call her out IMMEDIATELY on everything she does that makes you feel disrespected. Tell her you will not tolerate this kind of behavior anymore, if she wants to act like a child, you will treat her like a child.

ABOVE ALL, you must not lose your cool, you must remain calm and level headead and you must not engage her when she is screaming and you must not explain your choices to her. Explaining yourself puts her in the position of judging whether you made the correct choice or not. Do not fall into that.

Be aware that she treats you the way she does because YOU have tolerated it. If you are firm and consistent you will see results quickly or you'll realize why she's already had two failed marriages.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 08:02 AM
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...she was 33, recently seperated, and had two kids. I am now her third husband...and her mother is also on her third husband.
Marriage #3 at 33 + her mom runs through marriages...wonder why?

I have changed alot in the last few years and have gone from being a young man/kid to a grown up.
She had control of the ship for many years, and now you're trying to wrestle the wheel from her. She won't give it up without a fight.

Adittionally, she will go from the happy end of the spectrum to narcisistic and even beligerant in less than five minutes. She is incredibly moody. When she is moody she constantly tries to find things to get upset about.
At your W's age, their hormones get whack, and they tend to get more batshyte. My W is 45. Look up perimenopause...could be a factor here.

Wife: **** YOU!!! (now screaming in my face so close that i could feel her teath on my nose) I HATE YOU!!!
Since your 3 yo was in the room, probably best that you STFU at the moment (like you did), and/or walk away. Curious...are the two of you roughly the same size? I've never laid a hand on my W, but I'm a good bit bigger than her. As batshyte as she has been over the years, she has never entered my personal space during an argument. On what she said, I'd handle that several ways...big smile, and reply, "Aw, really? I love you." or you could smile, tell her to go F**K herself, and walk away.

I have had a talk with her about how important it is for a man to feel respected.
Good. You had the talk. Now, don't bother repeating it. You do your thing, continue to grow as a man, and she will respect you, or not. Telling her how important it is for her to respect you will do dyck.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 09:38 AM
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jabbe....

You are getting some good advice. To expand just a little. Your problem seems to be setting boundaries. You are tolerating unacceptable behavior, and even reinforcing it by joining in when she yells at you by yelling right back.

First off, you cannot control her. But you can set boundaries. When you feel disrespected say something like "I will not be spoken to in that tone", at most add "I will listen to you when you talk to me calmly and respectfully" then STFU and don't say another word to her until she addresses you in a calm and civil tone. Remove yourself from the situation if necessary.

The other main thing. Dont DEER---Defend, Explain, Excuse, or Rationalize. You have good reasons for what you did, and you think she is unreasonable and possibly stupid because she does not get your reasons. But this has nothing to do with your reasons. This has to do with balance of power and testing if you are really a man. So no logic is going to win the day. This is so illogical for men that it almost defies comprehension.

A lot of these relationship books talk about fights being bad because of the need to be right, and that you need to let go of this logic. This is good advice, though they don't get into the why of it. Often you are just plain right. You are arguing about facts. You can't even understand how she can argue against a fact. This has nothing to do with the facts. This has to do with her perceptions of the relationship.

Lastly, you are being constantly shit tested. That means you are being challenged just to see how you respond. You are asserting yourself more. You didn't used to do this. Is this a real change or something less fundamental. She does not want to be told what to do, but she does want to be lead.

If you constantly stand up for yourself, assert yourself and do not tolerate this lack of respect, she will do one of two things. She will back off (but expect flare-ups for the rest of your life....gotta keep testing the water!). Or she will decide this is done.

Note that if she decides this is done, she may not have the "balls" to end the relationship. Instead she may make your life utter hell, or she may cheat. These are just passive ways of making you end the relationship. If so, end it. If, after you have established you don't like her after you have "found you", consider that you can end it then too (not telling you to, and I know a young child makes a big difference in that calculus, but don't stay with her out of fear, it needs to be a conscious decision).

Quick edit.....one more thing. As suggested by others, once you have set that boundary, act as if everything else she says is water off a ducks back. Try to act like she is not affecting your mood. After acting this through a bit, you will actually learn to do it for real.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 10:35 AM
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I do set boundaries. What she does in return is modify her behavior to being subtle displays of agression that are difficult to adress.

For example:

I ask her to pick up a few things at the grocery store when she's on her way to the store. She is responsible for the grocery shopping and the bill. That is one of her parts of the budget (the biggest). I know she doesn't have lots of money, so the things I ask for are cheap and healthy at the same time. Plum tomatoes vs regular, green bell pepper vs. red, old fashioned oatmeal vs expensive cereal.

She comes home and has circled the items I asked for and now wants me to transfer money to her account. I tell her, this is her part of the budget (were talking a $5 difference here in a $200 bill). She flies of the handle talking about how she could have married such cheap men and how its coming back to haunt her again. She then starts to sulk and talking to herself about how she is taking care of all the laundry and chalk up the grocery bill too. Just dump it on me, just take take take. Our three year old is listening.

I tell her in an angry voice that she need to take that toxic bile outside or be quiet. She pipes down. Now she doesn't talk but she gives me dirty looks, leaves my laundry alone and does everybody elses.

Then she withholds sex for a month and double checks everything i do to find fault. She tries to blame every spot and mark in the house on me and tells me to clean it up.

I keep arresting her comments and remarks but she keeps them coming every time more inert, camouflaged and more difficult to adress.

She's smart i'll give her that!
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Old October 9th, 2012, 10:46 AM
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Woww,

I see a lot of your situation in my own marriage, however, my wife and I are much closer in age.

I think your situation is about as tough as mine if not tougher. Reading your comments, I would add..it doesn't seem like there is much wiggle room to come to a happy medium without fighting for every little bit of respect you "need." That leads you down a rabbit hole of making the most of all the leverage you can possibly muster. Simple question..."Is the pain worth it?"

On a final note, Boyd recently has offered a way to respond to the wife who thinks she has to have things her way. It's something like, "I understand and respect that you have a preferred way of doing this, but -when you're not around- you will have to respect the way that I go about getting it done."

Best of luck to you. Spend some time getting to understand what YOU need if the marriage continues. If can't be done...I hope then you're ready to do what you need to do.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabbejokker View Post
I do set boundaries. What she does in return is modify her behavior to being subtle displays of agression that are difficult to adress.
all new guys think that when they first find their balls and draw that line in the sand and say this is the boundary and this is what is going to happen that the little wife like in the movies just goes "OK Dear" " you are now the man of the house, what do you want for dinner, let me get you your slippers"

I tried the same shit and the guys here know how quickly my wife kicked my ass with my line in the sand with 2 words "Or What"

you are not prepared for the consequence of her paying mind games and jerking you around and keeping you in line because you still seek her approval on what you do. As long as she knows she has you trying to get her approval you will be a second class citizen.
Quote:

For example:

I ask her to pick up a few things at the grocery store when she's on her way to the store. She is responsible for the grocery shopping and the bill. That is one of her parts of the budget (the biggest). I know she doesn't have lots of money, so the things I ask for are cheap and healthy at the same time. Plum tomatoes vs regular, green bell pepper vs. red, old fashioned oatmeal vs expensive cereal.

She comes home and has circled the items I asked for and now wants me to transfer money to her account. I tell her, this is her part of the budget (were talking a $5 difference here in a $200 bill). She flies of the handle talking about how she could have married such cheap men and how its coming back to haunt her again. She then starts to sulk and talking to herself about how she is taking care of all the laundry and chalk up the grocery bill too. Just dump it on me, just take take take. Our three year old is listening.
you know why she acted like that?? simple, it works, here you are upset on what went wrong and now she will cut you off for a month.

Its obvious she is treating you like a little child and mommie must punish the bad boy for talking back.

First thing you should have done is say, honey, I am ready to talk about this but not in front of the kids, we have a difference of opinion and then don't engage.

Then later or when you sit down you simple say: Honey the way you talk to me is not acceptable, you are not happy, OK, you think I am cheap? OK but you in my mind are wrong, you went to the store, you are acting like we are room mates not a married couple and we sit down and split the grocery bill?

This is insane, and to argue over 5 dollars is it worth it?
Quote:

I tell her in an angry voice that she need to take that toxic bile outside or be quiet. She pipes down. Now she doesn't talk but she gives me dirty looks, leaves my laundry alone and does everybody elses.

Then she withholds sex for a month and double checks everything i do to find fault. She tries to blame every spot and mark in the house on me and tells me to clean it up.

I keep arresting her comments and remarks but she keeps them coming every time more inert, camouflaged and more difficult to adress.

She's smart i'll give her that!
[/quote]

Ok do your own laundry

when she tries these new tactics do what I did to my wife, oh she was ballistic but it was effective.

Honey, your material is getting stale, you need a new script, I don't watch re-runs any long. Stop acting like a 2 year old, you don't want to do my laundry and punish me then fine, I guess I will leave it on the floor until I get around to doing it, don't want to pick up something from the store for me then don't do it, I will do it.

However in time I will find that I am doing everything for myself and all I have is a woman who cleans house and yells about all my shortcomings in her mind and I will wonder if this is worth it.

Now do you want to have a good happy marriage and family or do you want to fight over 5 bucks and whose laundry gets done, its your call and walk away.

now you can change the script but don't over defend because when you start to defend you but into her game plan and odds are she is good at this and you are minor league when it comes to arguing with this woman.

make your point and don't try to convince her, she heard what you said.
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