passive sex = bad sex?

[Jonomore]

Been reading the oral sex thread. I am light years away from oral sex ...

This morning I told wifey I wanted sex. First time in a few weeks. I am always asking or initiating sex. She has absolutely no interest. It has been a marriage long issue that I have accepted and am now breaking away from - or trying to.

To her defense she is on meds for BPD but that is life for us. Even before that she would back off from her climaxes. I think it is too intimate for her. She told me way back when that she does not like to loose control.

Well I got it this AM but it would have been more satisfying with a hole in the mattress. She is placid and completely unresponsive. It is always the same. She knows how important it is to me (I've told her) but puts next to no effort into it. She lays there - does nothing - I can grab her hand edge her on and she will passively accept but it is completely with out feeling.

Is passive sex bad sex? I don't want to read more into a shitty sex life - or is it more.

This is such a hollow feeling. Frankly, taking care of myself is more satisfying.

Thoughts? A reality check is what I am after.
I no longer know what is normal or acceptable.
Johannes

[Zaurus]

Originally Posted by johannes

This morning I told wifey I wanted sex. First time in a few weeks. I am always asking or initiating sex. She has absolutely no interest. It has been a marriage long issue that I have accepted and am now breaking away from - or trying to.
....
This is such a hollow feeling. Frankly, taking care of myself is more satisfying.

Thoughts? A reality check is what I am after.
I no longer know what is normal or acceptable.
Johannes

I've been there. Many times. I have been thru times when I wished she was "into" it more or wanted it - instead she basically just spread her legs and acted like a receptacle. For me that part of our sex-life comes and goes. But boy does it suck when it happens. Makes you feel perverted or weird that you have such a strong desire that is not reciprocated.

Do the BPD meds take away desire? Have you brought it up with her? What does she say?

[For what it is worth...I have found that often giving her a nice long soothing massage gets her more in the mood - or at least more receptive to "making love" instead of just spreading her legs to satisfy me. ]

Another suggestion - don't go several weeks without it again...hit her up for more this week. Maybe Tuesday or Wednesday. Let it be known that you expect regular sex - at least once or twice a week. If she gives you a hard time tell her there is absolutely nothign wrong with wanting to be intimate in your marriage more often and is in fact HEALTHY. Tell her you are not expecting hours at a time but rather 20 minutes once or twice a week is reasonable. Don't be mean or forceful or a jerk. Just tell her its normal and means a lot to you and that you really want her to join.

It sucks that sometimes we have to try so hard to "get lucky" with our own wives. But we have a choice. To accept it or fight for it.

[Jonomore]

Thanks Zaurus,
yeah the meds do get in the way. She had meds which were supposed to increase drive but it made her ballastic - so back to the old med cocktail she has. It keeps her stable, it really is too dangerous to screw with that. She is aware of the med thing. Prior to that she could take or leave it, htere are also mental health issues...

She has told me that she thinks that sex is one of those animal things, nothing spiritual .. but that is a whole other thread.

Hear you about bringing up the weekly sex count, but it is sooo damn unsatisfying. it is harder said then done. But she is going to get it - nicely - again this week. 2X a week is my goal. It sucks to have to keep pushing it - open legs and her ceiling inspection do take the lust out of it, i think next time she will get to inspect the thread count on the sheets.

I expect regular sex, she knows it. I just have not acted on it. But that is changing, try to establish this as a boundary some how

The massage bit - a bit too much 'giving to get' for me. When I have done that it was so transparent to her that she comments on it. I avoid that now. I did give a massage recently, and flowers, and magazine and other 'nice' gestures with no expectation of sex. I'm not a complete dick. But I plan to be more of a dick and more persistent with her fully aware of it.

Old sex would last 2 hours sometimes with me trying to ensure the big O for her, but she doesn't. So now I try to read the body language, if she gets into it, I go for it. If she is the blow up doll and stays in that mode, another story.

I'm fighting for it, but am getting tired of the struggle.
Johannes

[Okarn]

Johannes,

Have tried just having your way with her as often as you want? As long as you don't use force, you might get a couple things accomplished.

1) Have it done 2 or more time a week.
2) Over time she just might get to liking it more.
3) Explain that yes, sex is a physical thing, but it can be a spiritual thing too. If she doesn't get the spiritiual side, she can at least get the animal (as you bring out your best bull moose in rut initation) thing!

Just an idea.

[Imaginativeone]

The whole BPD sounds terrifying. Crazy partner...no marriage sex...etc. Where's the pharaceutical industry on the development of the girl-who-will-always-love-sex-with-her-hubby-indicator? Several billion for the first one to develop that. Not to mention that as a species, finally we'll be able to evolve past that little relationship bugbear.

When this girl becomes your ex, may you choose more wisely and have more luck.

[Jonomore]

Will try the animal approach, walked the spiritual path too often. If she doesn't like it more at least she will need to tolerate it more.
She always complained that I was 'oversexed' and that was based on once a week. NG me would curb my apetite, get pissed off and get all passive aggressive about it. Those days are gone.
Ya don't use. ya loose it! I really see the wisdom in this.
This is definitely on my top 5 need wish list.

[Jonomore]

Data_art say:
When this girl becomes your ex, may you choose more wisely and have more luck.

Ouch ....
Not ready for that one yet. 25 years is hard to erase.
I'll take the path of least resistance for now.

[cabesada]

Passive sex is bad sex its not what you want. You just described what I think the essence of bad sex. What you want is a partner who is open, receptive and responsive. Her line about sex being animalistic and non spiritual is an excuse to avoid sex nothing else. There is a long history of linking sex and spirituality and a quick google search could turn up a least one hundred informative essays or books. Your problems are far from unique, unfortunately few people talk about it except here online it seems.

[DLR]

Originally Posted by johannes

Frankly, taking care of myself is more satisfying.

Right there is your answer as to whether or not this is bad sex.

[DLR]

Originally Posted by johannes

She always complained that I was 'oversexed' and that was based on once a week. NG me would curb my apetite, get pissed off and get all passive aggressive about it. Those days are gone.

Glad to hear you bitch-slapped that NG!

Don't ever let her (or anyone else) convince you that something is wrong with you for wanting what you want. As I'm sure you're aware now, that is just her way of directing attention away from herself and her problems.

[Old Hippie]

Is passive sex bad sex? I don't want to read more into a shitty sex life - or is it more.

This is such a hollow feeling. Frankly, taking care of myself is more satisfying.

Theres the answer to your question. Immediately after finishing take a moment to analyze how you feel. If you feel hollow or creepy then YES it is bad sex. You may eventually find yourself where I am currently at. Presently, I have absolutely no sexual desire for my wife. She has made some recent weak attempts to revive things but I have not responded. I feel her efforts are too little and too late. I also feel that she is just seeking affirmation that all is well. My current situation is much less frustrating but also lacks what I feel is some of the good spice of life. DON"T give her the long massage. As far as I'm comcerned that has been one of my most common covert contracts. If you do give her one, let her know that you fully expect some heat to follow or you are setting yourself up for bitterness and frustration.

[felix]

What i dont understand is why you are thinking this is a sexual problem. it isnt. its a marital problem. sex is only the symptom.

one true problem is that you think getting what you want is so important you are willing to push at her to get it even when you know she can barely enjoy it, if at all, due to emotional, physical and or medical reasons. this has always been the case and she has not changed. if anything the meds have made it worse. another problem is that you have belittled your own needs for so long so that getting your needs respspected no matter what they are, is not taken seriously by your partner.

have you ever thought of discussing how you are both disrespecting each other in the sexual area? this must also be reflected in other areas of the marriage. but i didnt hear you say one thing about treating her in a way that would inspire her to feel sexual with you. if you have been wimping yourself out how can you expect her to be horny for you? women dont feel safe with wimps. and if she is comfortable disrespecting your sexuality it may be because you have pushed it on her or given her permission in some way to do that. forcing it on her now wiht this 2 times a week rule is not going to heal the underlying issues. have you ever asked her what makes her feel admiring of you? do you know what behavior inspires her to feel safe with you? emotional safety is what helps a woman feel comfrotable enough to be seduced. if she is a control freak, as you say, what kind of strength do you have to show to help her feel safe enogh to let go of needing to be in control?

i would be intersted in any thoughts that any one has to say on my comments

[DLR]

Originally Posted by felix

another problem is that you have belittled your own needs for so long so that getting your needs respspected no matter what they are, is not taken seriously by your partner.


i didnt hear you say one thing about treating her in a way that would inspire her to feel sexual with you. if you have been wimping yourself out how can you expect her to be horny for you? women dont feel safe with wimps.


emotional safety is what helps a woman feel comfrotable enough to be seduced. if she is a control freak, as you say, what kind of strength do you have to show to help her feel safe enogh to let go of needing to be in control?

i would be intersted in any thoughts that any one has to say on my comments

Brilliant

I know I've had more sex and better sex during my recovery from NG syndrome than I ever did before. Women simply aren't turned on by someone they can push around. Even though they get "mad" on the surface - ignore that. Don't listen to what women say, listen to what they do. Stand up, and they'll be doing YOU.

[DLR]

Originally Posted by felix

if she is comfortable disrespecting your sexuality it may be because you have given her permission in some way to do that.

YES. I am a firm believer that we teach other people how to treat us. If your woman disrespect you, it is because you have allowed it. And, at some level it works for her (gets her off the hook for putting out AND gets her off the hook for taking responsibility for her sexual role in the relationship - makes the problem YOUR fault - you're oversexed). You must no longer accept being treated badly, and no longer allow this strategy to work for her.

[Jonomore]

Thanks guys for the great feed back.
A reality check really helps when you have been dysfunctional for a long time.

Old Hippie I have been following your lack of lust thread. I can relate, your lifestyle sounds similar to mine, extreme sports, health consious, good shape ....I am stronger and healhtier now then I was at 27 and feel pretty good about it. Feeling good makes me horny.

But I find that i am less attracted (there are other issues too) to my wife as well and at 47 I am not prepared to go out to pasture, not now, not ever. My answer is to turn up the heat. But it's a bit hard to when I get the passive no-response from my wife. The energy to keep at it is hard. And when I get the testostorone level subsides for a couple of days - when it kicks back up I need use it again.... Good to read though that your wife is at least aware of it and is making overtones. From what I read of your posts it sounds like you need some spice or something to shake it up. Maybe that's what my wife wants too, I know I do.

But if I don't do this - be persistent, it wont change, and probably will get worse.

I was pissed off a while ago about my wife's lack of sex interest so I decided that I was not going to pursue it. After 7 months I couldn't anymore, she never had any interest, in fact she was quite comfortable with it.

dlr you being involved with a BPD wife too, i think you understand the push/pull that happens and the victimhood. Your comments about training others how to treat you really hit me. You mentioned it on an other post, I think in BPD relationships it is more important then ever. I have used this with success in my other dealings with other people. It is a quick way to earn respect.

You guys are right that this is more of a marital problem, a sympton. I am trying to shake the wimp factor. It's funny though, talk to my wife and she will say that I am very stubborn and pigheaded.

Thanks for all the great input. I really feel I am getting somewhere and it will get better.