no sex better than bad sex

[Don Petru]

I've been married several times and been intimate with about 30 women during my 65 years.

But I always ran back to playing with myself...using wierd fantasies and porno....once sex with a real woman lost its novelty...sex with myself has been a refuge.

I knew it was wrong. My church forbade it. But I'm addicted. And guilty. And shamed and scared of being caught

Glover says this is wrong. And he's correct.

I'd get involved with a woman....sex would be great, at first...but eventually it would become routine. But the solitary fantasies are always "new" and
"exciting". So is the porn.

Now....I'm married again....10 years.....and she's really the best of all of them.


But sex with her has ALWAYS been boring. Even from the beginning.

We just don't have that sexual "chemistry". But we love and care for each other in our own ways.
I'm extrovert.....noisy....demonstrative.....romantic. ....laugh, cry, get mad easily...and get over it fast. Bring her flowers for no reason....love her so much!

She's the opposite. Very careful....quiet.....controlled.....keeps personal stuff inside.....but loves me just as much in her own way.

Our sex life sucks, though.

I have to initiate it. I get her off by hand. She lies there passively enjoying it. Then when its "my turn" she'll touch me but I remain limp and useless.


We've talked about this...but nothing changes.....and,of course, its all my fault. "Never had this happen with other guys" she says kindly.

When I've asked her to show more enthusiasm....she clams up....says its my problem because I suffer from clinical depression and the meds keep my dick down and I was raised Catholic;
And that's all true...BUT IT DIDN'T INTERFERE DURING THE TWO AFFAIRS I HAD while in this marriage. The sex was pretty damn good

She knows...I told her. She didn't scream or yell....just "thought" a lot.

But we're closer...except for sex.....that sucks.

Maybe I will follow Glover's trip about No sex is better than bad sex. It probably won't make any difference to her. We've gone without any sex for months and months....up to a year...and she's NEVER complained or mentioned it.

I always have to start things off....like its my JOB as a husband.

Maybe I just have to accept it. If I want her.....It'll be with bad sex or no sex. (except for jacking off...with porno...and shame...and guilt and a real sense of frustration and loss.) I doubt that I could ever stop jacking off alone....its about a 50 year addiction.

thanks for listening.











.

[rmouche]

Don,

don't take the burden of HER problems.

my ex had a "problemeatics" sexua lbehaviour for years :

she was not at ease with the sex. Refuse some position ( by example to open widely her legs, me to touch her breast, her anus duiring making love. She even told me that its wasn't a normal thing that I had an erection whil being laid agaisnt her in the bed.

Meanwhile, she told me that I had a problem with sex and that is the reason why she had this beahaviour. That she was more "open" before being with me ( like watching porn with an ex boyfriend I knew - nice manipulation no ?)

I was supposed to be the cause.

But I wasn't the cause? She WAS. And she still is.

I believed what she said was right? I spent years to feel guilty and to think that I was unable to induce desir for a woman. that a woman can't be horny with me.

Than, I discovered ( with other women) that I had no problems with this. that she has a problem and I was refering too much on her and too little and my feelings about me.

Stop challenging yourself about that.

Tell her.

[Don Petru]

Don't Take The Burden of Her Problems. Well,,Rmouche...thanks for the reply.

That's good advice. But I'm still left being frustrated by her refusal or inability
to take a more active part in sex with me.

I'm going to try to break the same ten year old sex routine: I start things as usual with her. But if she just lies there , passive, silent, while I do all the work......if she doesn't give be some feedback ("oh..that's wonderful...it feels so good....oh yes...yes...yes....) if her hands stay at her side and she
doesn't touch me.....I'm going to just STOP. I'll tell her I'm tired of being the one who starts it.....I'm tired of feeling like a mechanic working on a car ...I 'm tired of our sex life being in two acts: (she gets her pleasure first from my hand....then its my turn but I never get an errection so I'm left unsatisfied and resentful.

Of course, I've complained many many times to her but it does no good.
She just gets hurt and stays that way for several days after.

She is strong, stubborn and very rigid in her ways....she will never change and I'm just going to have to give up on having a successful, satisfying sex life with her.

So maybe that's my punishment for all the bad things I've done in life. Like having two separate affairs with other women....where the sex was really good. But I didn't love them the way I love my wife.

And I almost divorced her...but came to my senses at the last minute
And I'm old now and fear being alone in my declining years....old men who are single die sooner....research proves that.

So maybe that's my price. No sex life except masturbation.
Nothing in life is free.

Thank you very much for your response Rmouche.

[Newman050505]

A sexless marriage, and you're one tiny step away from one, is not a marriage. It's a friendship, a roommate situation, a business/legal relationship, something else. You enjoy the relationship, so keep it, for what it is, and seek your sexual happiness elsewhere.

Tell your wife you'd like to remain friends/partners/roommates, but you won't be having sex with her anymore. See what she does. Meanwhile, take care of yourself.

A complete marriage can be a wonderful thing, but a marriage where you live in a state of enforced celibacy is a terrible thing. A platonic marriage could provide you with the comfort and security you seem to want, but only if you can get sex somewhere else.

(I'm talking to myself here, as well.)

[rmouche]

Originally Posted by Don Petru

So maybe that's my price. No sex life except masturbation.
Nothing in life is free.

.

I hope you're kidding Don.

There is not price to pay. She has a problem. IT's not a normal thing for a woman to tell her husban that she can be a "hot" woman except with him. It's manipulative. And you begin to feel guilty.

life is a good thing, sex is a good thing, wine is a good thing, having fun is a good thing.

whatever you decide, never think that you have to pay for what you did by not having sex. Sex is not a punishement because SEX IS NOT A REWARD.

[John]

First, placing such an emphasis on sex can be a reflection of not addressing other issues in a marriage. I speak from experience with this and I sometimes do the same thing. Being in recovery from Nice Guy syndrome, I've started noticing that sex isn't as important as I've made it. While I enjoy sex as much as anyone, it's not as important in a relationship as I once treated it. Some women and men engage in sex more often than others, have more sex partners, and focus more on the quality of the sex that they have. There's room for that in any relationship, but it can also be a slippery slope down which to slide if one places too much emphasis on it.

Second, Don Petru, maybe you can try to look at the other areas of your relationship with your wife that don't involve sex. Putting some effort into those areas often yields good results and can even carry over to a better sexual relationship. I've had some experience with this, although I can't say that I completely identify with you and your situation because I'm thirty four years old and I've been married to only one woman for the past seven years. Incidentally, there has been an affair in our marriage which she had, but it hasn't completely destroyed the relationship.

Finally, Robert Glover's point about no sex is better than bad sex is valid. I think that we can be so easily swayed into having sex dominate our thoughts and feelings as men, particularly as Nice Guys, that we lose touch with reality. Radio, television, the internet, movies, and advertising are always using sexualized approaches to sell us items and to send messages or to get us to pay more attention to so much that it's sometimes not always our faults for doing that. Being able to separate ourselves from this is one way to improve ourselves and our relationships with people. That's why Robert Glover recommends reading, exercise, and spending time with male friends as ways to help recovering Nice Guys. In those situations, a recovering Nice Guy has to get in touch with himself and the world around him as it really is rather than the sexualized stuff that's being sent to us from the other places.

[huckleberry]

Originally Posted by John

Finally, Robert Glover's point about no sex is better than bad sex is valid. I think that we can be so easily swayed into having sex dominate our thoughts and feelings as men, particularly as Nice Guys, that we lose touch with reality. Radio, television, the internet, movies, and advertising are always using sexualized approaches to sell us items and to send messages or to get us to pay more attention to so much that it's sometimes not always our faults for doing that. Being able to separate ourselves from this is one way to improve ourselves and our relationships with people. That's why Robert Glover recommends reading, exercise, and spending time with male friends as ways to help recovering Nice Guys. In those situations, a recovering Nice Guy has to get in touch with himself and the world around him as it really is rather than the sexualized stuff that's being sent to us from the other places.

John speaks truly. He understands.

[John]

Don Petru,

It also might be a good time for you to try the sexual moratorium in the book. I'm not sure on what page it can be found, but I know it's in there. I've done it and I can honestly say that it made a difference for me.

[Tony67]

Originally Posted by rmouche

She has a problem. IT's not a normal thing for a woman to tell her husban that she can be a "hot" woman except with him. It's manipulative. And you begin to feel guilty.

Great observation! I've fallen for this line of BS before too. Just remember this: SHE HAS A PROBLEM. You listening Don Petru?

Originally Posted by rmouche

Sex is not a punishement because SEX IS NOT A REWARD.

rmouche this is excellent. Best quote I've heard all week. I gotta remember this one.

[Kodiak]

Originally Posted by rmouche

whatever you decide, never think that you have to pay for what you did by not having sex. Sex is not a punishement because SEX IS NOT A REWARD.

Yes, but.... not in the NG world. And, not in the world of many women, who see sex as a reward and who withhold sex as a punishment. Maybe it's an American thing, but it seems to be fairly common for women to have this attitude.

[Tony67]

It is a common attitude but that doesn't make it any less faulty.

[Newman050505]

Originally Posted by John

First, placing such an emphasis on sex can be a reflection of not addressing other issues in a marriage. I speak from experience with this and I sometimes do the same thing. Being in recovery from Nice Guy syndrome, I've started noticing that sex isn't as important as I've made it. While I enjoy sex as much as anyone, it's not as important in a relationship as I once treated it. Some women and men engage in sex more often than others, have more sex partners, and focus more on the quality of the sex that they have. There's room for that in any relationship, but it can also be a slippery slope down which to slide if one places too much emphasis on it.

I agree that we NGs place too much emphasis on sex, but part of it is the simple fact that the starving man is obssessd by food and the freezing man is obsessed with finding warmth. You must satisfy your physical needs, before you can satisfy your emotional needs. I got this from a guy named Maslow.

Having said that, I also agree that we NGs seek validation through sex, and we often abuse it as if it were a drug to ease our psychic pain.

Back to Jibsheet. As I see it, he left his wife (almost) because he wasn't satisfied with the relationship, mostly, but not only, with the physical aspect. He came back because he was afraid of being alone. In the meantime, she has not appeared to have made any changes in her behavior, and now he's willing to settle for a sexless life because she has "other qualities". I think this is classic NG behavior.

[rmouche]

Originally Posted by Kodiak

Yes, but.... not in the NG world. And, not in the world of many women, who see sex as a reward and who withhold sex as a punishment. Maybe it's an American thing, but it seems to be fairly common for women to have this attitude.

Not a only a american thing Kodiak.
And I'm 100% with you on this.

some women use the sex as a reward, a kind of hiden agenda. And the NG tendancy to settle cover contract with it give a "power" to this behaviour.

And the worst is that women enjoy sex. but as soon as they have a long term relation with a man, they fell into the "sex as reward" trap. And I don't think that they are at ease with it.


We, as men can change our NG behaviour by stopping the cover contract, but this will not change her behaviour.
I think that women have a real work to do on some "abvious" beliefs that are wrong. one on this believes is : man need to have sex with a woman and will do anything to have it.

They will have to admit that : men love to make love to women who are available and love to make love. they will avoid the others. Even if it's their wife.

[Newman050505]

Originally Posted by rmouche

They will have to admit that : men love to make love to women who are available and love to make love. they will avoid the others. Even if it's their wife.

How true!

[Don Petru]

To everyone: Thanks for your feedback

To Newman: No.....Its not just because I'm afraid to be alone. She has many qualities I enjoy and respect. She ain't perfect.

I was really ready to walk out the door. At the last minute, I realized that I want to be with her and divorce would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. So I changed my mind. Not just because I'd be old and alone...yeah that was part of it....but mainly because I love her and its good to be with her and we have a 10 year history when she's been there for me, despite the sex problem.

So that's the story......its not all black an white....shades of gray.

And , two months later, I know I did the right thing.